Stamp Dealer Covers

Discussion in 'United States Stamps' started by Molokai, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    Collecting stamp dealer covers from the old days (generally before WWII) is still an interest for me. I am focused on Nassau Street and NYC dealers, for now, perhaps expanding later. As I purchase old philatelic journals I am making a list of all the dealers on the East Coast and other areas relative to their fame. Newspaper and Periodicals are my latest love – and of course my enduring passion for books and periodicals.

    I will post Stamp Dealer Covers here from time-to-time.


    Herman Schmidt to William O. Siebold. A nice pair of 1c Pilgrims.

    A story of a robbery at Mr Schmidt’s office is here: schmidt stamp dealer&f=false

    Mr Siebold was a well-known FDC servicer. Perhaps a cousin to the famous double agent spy - William G. Siebold – unless that is a ‘G’ middle initial?
  2. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Best Answer
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  3. DonSellos

    DonSellos Moderator Moderator

    Very nice. Given that addressee was also well known in philately, I would categorize it as a philatelic association cover as well as a stamp dealer cover. Hope to see more of your covers soon.

  4. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

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  5. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator


    Albrecht & Witt to Hans Mueller. A tri-colour. Interesting, the red target appears to be handmade. Purpose?

    R F Albrecht was in the business with Mr Witt early on, then went it alone as Albrecht & Company, although at the same address of 90 Nassau Street.

    No info on Hans Mueller. No relationship to the late philatelist Barbara R. Mueller whose father’s first name was Edwin. Ms Mueller passed away not too long ago. I'm sure I've read her United States Postage Stamps several times. I think it is still the most readable introduction to the subject.
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  6. DonSellos

    DonSellos Moderator Moderator


    You are building a fine collection of Nassau Street dealers covers.

    To where is that cover addressed? It almost looks like Kentucky.

    On registered covers the back envelope flap is supposed to be postmarked over the flap seals to insure the cover has not been opened. The originating post office was to use its registered canceler for this, which it did use on the front to cancel the stamps. Maybe the originating post office failed to do this and a receiving office used a target cancel instead?????

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  7. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Moderator Moderator

    Hi Don,

    It looks to me like Lebanon, Marion County, Kentucky.
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  8. DonSellos

    DonSellos Moderator Moderator

    I think you are correct.

  9. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    Hi, Don -

    You certainly have deep knowledge of things philatelic; I am envious! If I could tap into you, Hoch, James and Werner I would have everything covered. :)

    That would explain the target cancel. It appears to be Lebanon, Marion, ???Kentucky. Lebanon is in Marion County. I am quite confused on a lot of these rates! I guess I will need to buy the books covering such things. Quite a few of them...recommendations, please.
  10. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator


    W.F. Gregory to W.F.E. Gurley. Interesting New York stampings. Was the oval 'REG' common at the time? Happy Halloween, first of the 20th century! Costumes were different back-then:

    Two days from New York to Chicago, better than today! I do need reference material on rates!

    Mr Gregory is fairly well-known, mentioned in the philatelic literature often enough. I believe a story about him is in one of the Herst books. Said to be extremely knowledgeable about things philatelic.

    It appears Mr Gurley was a fairly well-known palaeontologist if I read the initials correctly:
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  11. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Moderator Moderator

    Hi Molokai!

    I read the same thing you do for the addressee: WFE Gurley. A quick look on the Internet confirms him as a famous paleontologist contemporary with the cover.
    The oval registry cancel was a common New York cancel from the late Banknote era through the first bureau issue stamps.
    The registry rate was indeed 10c and remained such through the issuance of the F1 registry stamp in 1911.
    The fact it is also a stamp dealer cover is bonus, really a great cover you have Molokai.
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  12. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    Thanks, Hoch! I have a couple stamp dealers/famous collectors and stamp dealers/philatelic writers. Nice when both sides are noteworthy. One can assume quite a few famous people in years gone by were stamp collectors - it was THE hobby for several decades.

    Sidebar Note - I was reading the 1988 Congress Book - three articles discussing the problem of bringing in 'new blood' to the hobby...if they only knew it would get worse! An resurgence would need to come from USPS - 1) Bringing back adhesives or making all the stickies soakable, 2) Encourage use of stamps by small businesses and at postal stations, "Would you like a stamp or a meter?" I guess I can dream. :rolleyes:
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  13. DonSellos

    DonSellos Moderator Moderator

    I don't think there will be a resurgence of stamp collecting in the future. My pessimistic view is based upon the decline of the mails as a communication medium and a resulting infrequent use of stamps on mail. The mails just aren't important anymore and, consequently, stamps are superfluous. Online payment of bills and email has reduced an individual's need for postage stamps.

    At the post office I use, clerks have only the current booklets of stamps in their stock drawers. Should someone be bold enough to ask for a commemorative sheet, the clerk has to leave his/her station and go to a common inventory drawer, take out the commemorative, if there is one, and "buy" it from his/her cash drawer. Just a different postal world these days.

    The few U.S. commemoratives I use I buy from the USPS online site in Kansas City, Missouri. Much easier than trying to find a sympathetic clerk to look for the stamps I want.

    The contemporary post office scene, however, has not dampened my collecting, just changed its focus. I stopped collecting U.S. issues back in the early 1990s and turned to used WW stamps issued prior to 1965. Much more satisfying for me.

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  14. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    Howdy, Don –

    I believe stamp collecting will survive for some time – though not as you or I, perhaps James and Werner knew it. The top-tier items should continue to be a relatively solid investment medium.

    Folks still collect musical boxes although they don’t make them any longer. I collected model gas engines for a time – another hobby probably in worse shape than philately – but it keeps limping along.

    With stamps, there is a tremendous variety of material, a corpus of research and resources not typical of most they-don’t-make-them-anymore hobbies as well as specialized paths to follow. ‘New blood’ in stamps will perhaps be those who come in from the top as investors (instead of the bottom) and become interested in the hobby itself. Isn’t that how Ryo Ishikawa started – as an investor?

    When I read Pat Herst’s last book, Still More Stories to Collect Stamps By, I noted a slightly negative even angry tone in a few stories – very out of character I thought. No doubt he, like us, was nostalgic for the Good Old Days which can make one a tad negative (at least it does me if I dwell too long). I enjoy shopping on eBay (though not as much as my wife does!) but would trade it for a few local brick and mortar dealers and Linn's old mail auctions.

    Fortunately, right now at least we are able to enjoy the hobby as we wish and that is what I intend to do as long as I am able! The future is out of my hands. “What, me worry?

    (I am actually seriously considering putting up a blog on Newspaper & Periodical stamps. I suspect it will get about three hits a week, but it will be fun and educational for me.)
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  15. DonSellos

    DonSellos Moderator Moderator


    Give it a shot. It might even earn some advertising money. Members of this forum will probably read it.

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  16. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    I'll keep you posted! Perhaps something for over the holidays.

    Meanwhile, her is the 'other' Gregory' stamp dealer, Chas.

    Chas J Gregory to Mrs H. M. Kirk. More Columbians and First Bureaus… The registry rate was apparently 12c at that time?

    I found a few cites for this Mr Gregory. The Honeymooners lived just up the street some years later. ‘NORTON! Come down here!’:cigar:

    This Mr Gregory is mentioned and discussed in Herst's Stories to Collect Stamps by. Apparently, he was active from the mid-1860s into the 1930s. Herst was pleased that he could learn from someone who extended back to almost the beginning days of philately. Chas wrote a memoir as it were of the 'old days' in the magazine, Eastern Philatelist. A summary begins the aforementioned book.

    Nothing on H.M. Kirk

    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  17. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Moderator Moderator

    Hi Molokai!

    The rate for registered mail was still 10c. The rate of 10c began July, 1 1875 and remained unchanged as I stated before through the F1 stamp period. This rate was in addition to the normal postage required for mailing. I can't speak to the discrepancy between the two covers, but this is what my understanding of what the rate structure was.
    Perhaps another member can shed some light on what appears to be a contradiction.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  18. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    According to Michel the addition for registration was:
    From Jan.1st 1874 8 Cents,down from previous 15 Cents.
    From Oct.1st,1875 10 Cents.
    From Jan.1st,1893 8 (!) Cents.
    From Nov.1st,1909 10 Cents.
    Because of that the Gregory/Kirk letter should have been a
    two ounces letter,if franked correctly.
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  19. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    Danke, Werner!
  20. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    Two or three more and I will give it up for a spell.:shame:


    Theodore Siddall to John G. Payn. Lots of cancellations, postmarks. ‘5’ & F.B – from the Brit side I think? Not sure what’s going on with the lower pair of 1c First Bureaus…postal clerk having a bad day, perhaps. Hmmm...Obverse stamp appears to be partially under the fold. I need to go get the item, take a better look-see and report back to SE headquarters.

    Theodore Siddall was the first American member of the Shanghai Philatelic Society. He relocated to the Far East at some point.

    No information on Mr Payn that I could find.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  21. Molokai

    Molokai Moderator Moderator

    My last cover and post for a spell. I am going to take a holiday hiatus.


    I do like this cover. Both well-known dealers, tri-color with a parcel post stamp and wax seals for good measure.

    Here is 90 Nassau Street today. I wonder if they know about Mary’s Baby?!8m2!3d40.710078!4d-74.007679

    Season’s Greetings to <Peter>, <DonSellos>, <Hoch>, <James> and <Werner>!
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