Pre philatelly era

Discussion in 'Stamp Chat' started by Makanudo, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Hello All!

    Lately we went back down classicall stamps alley, and we are still exploring this thematic .
    I would, however like to go even further back and look at any pre philatellic items we might have. Stamps were introduced in different countries at different times, so what was a pre philatellic letter in one country at 1860, would have been a letter with a postage stamp in another.
    I hope we all enjoy this thread.

    James-2489 likes this.
  2. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    a pretty good idea.
    Unfortunately I cannot contribute to this thread,because I have
    no pre-philatelic material.
    Can you give some information about your shown letter ?
  3. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello all, I posted this one a couple of years back. I have a number of these in my collection, some much older.

    1807-02-18 - Entire lettersheet with double circle and single ring postmarks to Edinburgh.
    Nice clear handwriting.


    Regards, James.
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  4. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    I appologise for not being more detailed in my description.
    The letter I have shown a part of is actually an official court finding on illegal appropriation of a meadow by a heigbour,
    It was posted the same day it was made and thats September 5th 1866.
    Year 1866. is the year of the issue of the first serbian postage stamp.
    The letter was sent From Smederevska Palanka to the Governor of Belgrade.
    1866.jpg 1866a.jpg
    James-2489 likes this.
  5. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator


    What does a single ring stamp stand for?
    Are these letters your family heirloom or unrelated?

  6. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Here is the only other such letter I have. It is also official letter. And it is from 1860.

    James-2489 likes this.
  7. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello all, the double ring postmark is from the sending office (dated 18 Feb 1807) London office "A" ? and the single ring postmark is the accepting office Edinburgh (dated 21 Feb 1807) it was normal then for the reciever of the mail to pay the postage.
    The fact that sometimes the recipient declined to pay eventually led to Sir Roland Hill's universal penny postage being introduced in 1840.

    I bought these many years ago when I became interested in Bishop marks, the earliest that I have is Dated 1699. but I do occasionally look for interesting ones.

    Regards, James.
  8. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Wow James!
    I would love to those 18century and 1699 letters.
    I'll study the link you provided.

  9. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello, these lettersheets tend to be quite dry and relatively fragile, so I do not like to handle them too often. I have always intended to make double sided photoframes so that they could be viewed from both sides, once sealed they would have to be kept away from strong lights to avoid fading. Also, they are not all to a standard size, the 1807 one, if I remember correctly is a little over 13" x 22". My scans in that image are in fact three different scales, Top left is the folded sheet, top right is the folded part behind the cover and the lower image is the entire unfolded sheet.

    Regards, James.
  10. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    I know about the sizes and sensitivity.
    I just thought you had some photos, but thanks anyway.

    Best regards
  11. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

  12. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello all, apart from stamps I also collect newspapers (Special events only) one of my favourites is an original of The London Times for Thursday November 7th 1805, although somewhat degraded now, I made this one into a coffee table so that both sides of the single sheet newspaper could be read. This paper carries the first UK report of the Battle of Trafalgar which took place on October 21st 1805. Apart from the battle account, it has some interesting adverts,
    1 is and ad' for a cellarman for a London Pub with pay offer of five Guineas per year "all found" IE including Board and Lodgings.

    2 is an ad' which says "LOST old pointer dog, partially blind, one eye quite gone. Answers to the name of "Basto". Five Guineas reward, no further reward will be offered"
    That is a years pay for many people.

    Another newspaper in my collection is the (London) Telegraph newspaper dated May 10 1937. It has the first photo's and describes the Hindenburg disaster. The paper states that this news was flown accross the Atlantic by Airman, Bob Merrill. His route was from New York to Newfoundland, Greenland, Iceland, Scotland then London.

    Regards, James.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
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  13. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    This letter doesnt come from pre philatelly era, but it is made and written in that style. It is some kind of a military letter, and I would appreciate some help from german speaking members on the forum, in order to decipher what it says.

    kk1.jpg kk2.jpg kk3.jpg
  14. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    The letter is written in Kurrent-Schrift-letters.The Kurrent-Script
    is the forerunner of the very similar Süterlin-script,what was
    introduced in Prussia in 1915 and later in the rest of Germany,except of Austria and German-Switzerland,what remained with the Kurrent-Script.I do not really know the differences between Kurrent and Süterlin.
    However,my grandmother,when a young girl of about 15,had to
    write a cookery-book as part of her school-curriculum,around 1900.
    This handwritten book of nearly 300 pages made me try to read
    the Kurrent-Script.I never succeeded 100 %.But as the number
    of different words and phrases in a cookery-book is rather limited,
    I managed to understand all recipes.
    To your letter:
    It was written by a branch of the Royal Hungarian Forest Administration in Gaitasoll (cannot decipher the exact name of the sender) to another branch of the same office in Deliblat.
    Both places in the Vojvodina,then Hungary,today Serbia.
    The letter is inscribed as "Dienstsache portofrei" (official mail,no postage required),what explains,why no stamp is affixed.
    I do understand parts of the text only.
    It says that they are sending an inventory (of whatever) they
    had found at two different locations.
    It is not much of a help I can give,but I don´t know better.
    DonSellos and Makanudo like this.
  15. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator


    Thank you so much for your help on this one.
    I honestly thought that it was some order for military equipment.
    I didnt know about the Kurrent and Süterlin writting types either.
    Deliblat still bears that name. Its a land of sand dunes.
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