My two 10 cent 1847 George Washington set

Discussion in 'What's it Worth?' started by notional, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. notional

    notional New Member

    Hi all again! You folks provided so much additional information to me on my 5 Cent Ben Franklin set, I was hoping you'd be able to do the same on my 10 cent 1847 George Washington set. And thanks again for all your insight!
    George Washington 10 Cent 1847 Pair .jpg
     
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  2. DonSellos

    DonSellos Well-Known Member

    Hi notional:

    I'm not a collector of 19th century U.S., but that stamp on the right is an exceptional copy. Handsome margins and a light cancel. The one of the left is pretty nice as well. You appear to be a discriminating collector. It's good to have you on the Exchange.

    Don
     
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  3. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Well-Known Member

    Hello Notional,
    Scott recognizes two shades for the #2 Washington, black and gray black. It's not clear from just a scan whether you have both shades or not, but it appears you may. I don't have a new catalog, but they appear to both carry the value in my old one. I have to agree with Don that the one on the right has nice large margins and is a real plum.
     
    notional likes this.
  4. notional

    notional New Member

    Thanks for your input! Just started getting into the 19th Century US stamps since I've gotten back into collecting. I realize the one on the left only has three margins...but I just couldn't pass it up, as it was my first one (of the two). As I delve more into this, I understand a lot more of what I need to be looking for when obtaining copies. Landing on this site has certainly opened my eyes up some!
     
  5. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Maybe I am naive:
    But to me the stamps look strange.Provided they were scanned side by side
    they differ a lot in size and shape.The left stamp is much bigger than the
    the right one.Furthermore the oval of the right is more round shaped,
    while that of the left is more long shaped.Because of that Washington looks
    well fed on the left,while slim on the right.
    Also the paper: to me both stamps seem to be printed on white paper,
    but it should be bluish...
     
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  6. notional

    notional New Member

    Those are two separate scans just put into one picture. They were not scanned side-by-side. Also, I believe that my scanner auto-corrects the image (you can tell a little bit by the think black background line around the frame of the image, one is a little grayer than the other - but it's the same color black). So I believe the image on the right is a little paler than in real.
     
  7. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Perhaps it would be a good idea,if you would scan the stamps side-by-side ?
     
    notional likes this.
  8. notional

    notional New Member

    Werner,
    Great idea. I had them scanned individually, at the time I acquired them, and just cut/paste onto a single page. Just pulled them both out and did a scan, with no effects/fix/correction - save erasing background (one is grey and the other black and it was distracting when they overlapped) and trimming the scan. Here they are - 1847 Washington 10 Cent side by side - white.jpg
     
  9. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Well-Known Member

    Hi Notional,
    A concern with the 1847 Washington stamp is the Sperati forgeries. A telltale sign is the ill defined printers initials at the center of the bottom frame as well as being softer and coarser than the bluish paper of the original. The Swedishtiger site which has been mentioned many times by various contributors has an image of the forgery. I don't believe either of your stamps to be forgeries, but it is good to be aware of the difference. Actually the forgeries command a good price in their own right. The new scans seem to confirm my intuition. There are a couple of other varieties mentioned that should interest you.
    https://www.theswedishtiger.com/ID1.html
     
    notional likes this.
  10. notional

    notional New Member

    Hochstrasse,
    Thanks for the input! I've been looking at the Sperati forgeries that you linked to, and now I'm a little concerned with the one I have (on the right of the second scan, where the bottom is cut). Any way, other than the initials, to tell if the one I have is not a Sperati? Although, when I look closely at mine, especially in the upper right area (around the "U"), I do see detail which the original seems to have as well defined as mine, but which is not as well defined as in the Sperati forgeries. Or am I just seeing things?
     
  11. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Well-Known Member

    I noticed the same missing frame line you did at the bottom of the stamp on the right, but I do not notice any of the crude detail that the Swedishtiger refers to. The difference in paper described by link is something only you can check by flicking it lightly with your fingernail. If you sense a difference then perhaps you can further check some of the finer detail with a higher magnification device. Sperati was know to have covered the printers initials with the red grid cancellation he was fond of using, but I see no evidence of that on the stamp on the right.
    A "coarser" paper would be easy to compare with a 20x magnifier if the tactile method fails. I use the finger flick to differentiate between hard and soft paper varieties in the large banknote run.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    notional likes this.
  12. notional

    notional New Member

    How much of value is lost due to the cut off on the bottom of the one stamp? Also, with the new scan, is anyone able to tell if one is 'gray' and the other 'black'? One does look 'blacker' to me than the other. Thanks!
     
  13. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Well-Known Member

    Hi Notional,
    Value is of course subjective, it's what another person is willing to pay for something. Even this varies if the sale is to a collector or to a dealer. The price of a stamp involves many things: margins, cancellation, faults etc. The margins play a large part in grading and of course grading determines much of a stamps value. As far as color is concerned my guess is strictly my opinion and carries no weight to a potential buyer. A certified stamp removes all doubt about variety and authenticity.
    I have attached a link that will tell you more about grading.
    http://gradingmatters.com/all-about-grading.html
     
    notional likes this.
  14. notional

    notional New Member

    Thanks for your input! The link to grading helps a lot. I'm not really looking to put a hard-set value on each, but more along the lines of what detracts from the value, or adds to the value of the stamps. I knew that missing one edge detracts, but I hadn't the concept as to how much. I also know that other factors hold weight as to value as well. Just trying to learn. Thanks again for your help.
     
    Hochstrasse likes this.
  15. RuStamps

    RuStamps Member

    Both are genuine 1847 no reprints - only difference one is black and other is grey-black variety, same CV
    Original is engraved. Sperati is PhotoLitho = big difference when seen side by side Engraved much sharper Also photo is flat, engraved one can see ink ridges from plate pressure under magnification No need to check bottom initials

    Of course left is worth considerably more than CV, right is maybe half
     
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  16. Chris Thomas

    Chris Thomas New Member

    Hi Notional...I am a new member of this forum as well. It’s fabulous to hear so many great perspectives and welcomed advice as you grow your stamp collection. In collecting the US Classics I would encourage you to buy only stamps that have been authenticated by either PSE or PF. It’s the best way to value your collection, in my opinion. However, maybe you’re just looking to fill spaces and build from there. If that’s the case don’t worry about certs. Anyway here’s my copy of Scott #2. It has been certified from PSE GRADE 95. The imperf classics are the best. It’s great to hear your enthusiasm
    Chris
     

    Attached Files:

    notional likes this.
  17. notional

    notional New Member

    Thanks! I've actually been looking into getting them certified/ valued. Have you gone through that process, or just purchased certified only?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  18. Chris Thomas

    Chris Thomas New Member

    I wouldn’t get the short margin copy certified. Even if sound it’s a $75-100 stamp. As for the 4 margin copy. I have never seen a 10c gray black certified stamp. It may exist just never seen one and I’ve reviewed hundreds of copies. I think a better guess is it’s a later printing and the color just isn’t that great. The margins are either a grade 85, maybe 90. Then you should check for thin spots, creases, pin holes, etc. With shipping, insurance, and cert fee it would probably set you back $75. A good way to value a graded stamps current value is researching on Siegel (free) or Stamp Auction Network agent ($75 yr I think)

    But remember a Stamps color and cancellation will also factor into its value/desirability.
     
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