I need help in order to ID this stamp properly

Discussion in 'World Stamps' started by Makanudo, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator


    I recently bought a small collection of swedish stamps, and this is one of them.
    It should be one of the earlier stamps, but I am not sure.
    Perforations are 13 1/2 and 14.


  2. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello Makanudo, crop from Scott 2009.

    Regards, James
  3. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    But my perforation is 13 1/2 and 14?
  4. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    This is mint never hinged stamp. There are couple more mint in the group and the others are cancelled.
    Does it look authentic?
  5. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    I am not an expert in forged stamps, but the higher the value the more profit for the forgers. I would have thought that the chance of finding genuine stamps of those values today is quite slim, but not impossible, it has happened before. When I was buying stamps back in the 50s I believe that the vast majority were genuine. You bought from reputable dealers. Now with the advance in technology fakes are much easier to produce, it is quite easy to produce the paper and add watermarks or bleach old low value stamps and overprint with fakes.

    Look at some of the "fake stamps" websites, there are several on line.

    Regards, James
    Werner Salentin likes this.
  6. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Sorry if I placed you in odd spot James. Naturally no one can say without examining it closely.
    I bought it in a lot o f mixed world stamps and it(the whole lot) was cheap.
    It really would be odd if it were to be authentic.
    I shall post the rest of old swedish stamps that it came along later.
    Thanks & Regards
  7. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Milan,I agree 100 % to James´remarks.
    Unfortunately your scan is not good enough to spot details.
    So the colour should look the same,as my 20 Öre stamp shown:
    But your scan shows one detail quite clearly: the perforation.
    You write your stamp is perforated 13 1/2 x 14.
    Scott 33a or Michel 22FB exists perf.13 only.
    However that is not that clear cut,because it can vary up
    to 13 1/2,but never 14.
    But that is not too important.The perforation nevertheless is
    to me a sure sign,that your stamp is a forgery.Originals are comb-perforated.Yours is line-perforated.
    Comb-perforation gives equal corner-perfs,while corner-perfs of line-perforation normally are uneven.
    Line-perforation is quite easily produced,while comb-perforation
    is quite difficult.That is why so many forgeries of different stamps
    are found line-perforated.
    If you have a close look,you will see that the perforation-holes
    of your stamp are smaller than the "tooth".While on my stamp
    the holes are significant bigger than the tooth.This is a sure
    sign,that your stamp was perforated with a different tool,than
    the originals.
    By the way,the print-quantity of the original Sc.33a/Mi.22FB
    was 970 stamps.
    DonSellos and James-2489 like this.
  8. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Werner ,

    Everything you wrote is logical.
    I learn something new here every day.
    Here are some more stamps from this lot:

  9. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    I have soft spot for old stamps.
    I recently started a collection called XIX century, and its arranged by continents.
    One thing I dont want however are forgeries. Never appreciated them in banknote collection either.
    SATX Collector likes this.
  10. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello Makanudo,

    One other way of checking perforations (which might also show fake stamps)

    An example from my Thai collection. I have many copies of these stamps, I stack them together to separate out the different perforations, then separate each stack into their face values.

    “Vienna” Issue Date: 1912-10-15. Perforation: 14 x 14½

    London” Issue Date: 1917-01-01. Perforation: 13½ x14 & 15

    I use the same method for the Airmail 1st & 2nd series

    Airmail 1st series. Issue date: 1925-01-01. Perforation: 13½ x14 & 15

    Airmail 2nd series. Issue date: 1930-1936. Perforation: 12½

    I use the same method for sorting some of the definitive issues that may have been printed in several countries.

    Regards, James.
    Werner Salentin and Makanudo like this.
  11. Takis Kalogerakos

    Takis Kalogerakos Active Member

    Series:Circle type
    Catalog codes:Mi:SE 22Ba, Sn:SE 33, Yt:SE 21A, AFA:SE 22B
    Issued on:1877
    Perforation:comb 13½
    Face value:20 Swedish öre
    James-2489 likes this.
  12. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    if you go for old and costly stamps you will come across forgeries.
    And from time to time you will fall to one.
    I have yet not found a really useful website about forgeries.
    Useful can only be,showing originals and fakes side by side.
    Just images of forgeries are of little help.
    Expertising has become costly and prohibitive costly for
    stamps with a lower value.Postage and handling become too
    expensive for these.
    So there is no easy way out,but that makes it also more
    interesting and challenging !
    Makanudo likes this.
  13. zevrap99

    zevrap99 New Member


    I found these in my collection. Further research online tells me that these stamps are often forgeries. Im hoping mine arent
    SATX Collector likes this.
  14. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello Zevrap99,
    I would guess that if they have been in that album for about 75 years, they are most likely to be genuine.

    Having said that, read this,
    particulary the passage Frauds and Forgeries. Some of the fakes are worth considerably more than the genuine stamps.

    Regards, James.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
    zevrap99 likes this.
  15. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    This text is not mine,but from a collector who writes the best articles,
    better than most books,about forgeries,I know.

    The scariest words that describe a collection on common auctions are "From an old collection"
    This is supposed to somehow reassure one that this collection is the real thing.
    Actually it is quite the opposite, grandfather/father lived during the heyday of packet sales that were full of forgeries.
    They did not have forums, wiki or the availability of books on forgeries. Many of these books were very limited and in the language of the issuing country.
    So everyone who collects world wide 1840 - 1940 is also collecting forgeries and like it or not, they are part of the hobby and have their own place in the hobby.
  16. SATX Collector

    SATX Collector Remember the Alamo!

    Hello Takis:

    Does that mean you believe the stamp is real? The only reason I ask is because of the Tretio inscription... not being deeply intuitive on Old Swedish (though I do have a few) I am wondering if it is worth looking for them in my many travels?
  17. SATX Collector

    SATX Collector Remember the Alamo!

    Still a nice specimen... The TRETIO SHOULD be hard to forge and match the rest of the ink but it would be subject to analysis to prove either way...
  18. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Just a quick correction...
    I dont know how, but I did make a mistake in mesuring perforation on this stamp.
    It is indeed 13 on both sides.
    SATX Collector likes this.
  19. SATX Collector

    SATX Collector Remember the Alamo!

    Makes MUCH more sense all the way around... nice stamp!
  20. Makanudo

    Makanudo Moderator Moderator

    Because you dont make MUCH sense all the way around.
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