Early stampless....HELP PLEASE....!

Discussion in 'Stamp Chat' started by Rick 2, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Rick 2

    Rick 2 Member

    OK, OK, I know this is a "Stamp" forum......but everything postal right??;) Any advice on where to send a stamp-less cover for authenticity check?? I have one dated April 1664 on inside. I cannot read since its possible its written in Italian, but it references Venice ( the only word I recognized ). Date is at lower left....and upper left. 1664outer.jpg 1664inner.jpg
     
    RichardBabcock likes this.
  2. RichardBabcock

    RichardBabcock Well-Known Member

    Best Answer
    Rick go to Richard Frajola board of Philatelic experts, Just type in Richard Frajola stamps it should pop up on google. Apply for a member ship for free and all the experts will help you with any item you ever need help with. Good luck. They are the best in the world, so just remember what they say is all true.They will give you the route it was taken on, likely by who, if the rate charged was correct and so on.
     
    Rick 2 likes this.
  3. Rick 2

    Rick 2 Member

    ....yeah its kinda weird that the 2 dates do not match.....I think one says Apr, the other Mar?? Maybe its referencing another earlier letter? Maybe if I went to a Italian specialist.......
     
    Hochstrasse likes this.
  4. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Moderator Moderator

    I believe that most of the mail circulated in 17th century Italian States was done by private courier. So absent normal service markings it wouldn't be practical to expertise such mailings. You would likely get a great deal of information from an Italian specialist. Without a fundamental understanding of the contents of the text I couldn't even guess why the two different dates are on the same letter.
    Nice stampless cover and excellent condition for a document of such age.
     
    Rick 2 and DonSellos like this.
  5. RichardBabcock

    RichardBabcock Well-Known Member

    Best Answer
    Rick go to Richard Frajola board of Philatelic experts, Just type in Richard Frajola stamps it should pop up on google. Apply for a member ship for free and all the experts will help you with any item you ever need help with. Good luck. They are the best in the world, so just remember what they say is all true.They will give you the route it was taken on, likely by who, if the rate charged was correct and so on.
     
    Rick 2 likes this.
  6. Rick 2

    Rick 2 Member

    Thank you Richard!
     
  7. Rick 2

    Rick 2 Member

    Thanks Hochstrasse!
     
  8. Rick 2

    Rick 2 Member

    OK, I went to the site, signed up, and sent pics and comments about my cover. 1 hr later Richard sent this reply..."It appears to me to be a genuine 1664 use from Malta to Padua, Italy. Seems to have been written in March 1664 and received in April 1664." That would explain the 2 dates on the letter.....! By far my earliest dated cover /enclosure.......and now its going to a translator, if I can find one at local college. Thanks again Richard!
     
    Hochstrasse likes this.
  9. RichardBabcock

    RichardBabcock Well-Known Member

    They just offered to translate it on line, And want a scan of the back.The board is quite busy I recommend contacting the member via email for the translation.
     
  10. All'illustrissimo signore mio signor padrone colendissimo il signor Giovanni de Lazara, Padova.
    Taxed 12 soldi from Malta to Venezia + 1 soldo from Venezia to Padova = 13 soldi.
    1664 21 aprile Ricevuta/
    Illustrissimo Signore mio signore e padrone colendissimo.
    Ci aveva fatto premura di partire questa Pasqua per essere stata cosa sicura di qui fino in Messina e anche supponendo che non fosse intenzione di Vostra Signoria Illustrissima che per ora dovesse pigliar ... la qual cosa la fa volentieri.
    Da quelle (lettere) del signor commendator Gabucini e del Padre ... scoprirà meglio, @ ... avuiti dal Padre ...visto che ... di ... si alloggerà in casa del signor Gabucini e potrà essere con meno spesa del passato, occorrendo venire può fare rimessa di altri 50 ducati e desidero sapere se Vostra Signoria Illustrissima intende di fare le spese al signor Carlo ... Per viaggio, perché non credo che lui avrà denari da imprestare @ noi e qui accluso riceverà il conto della spesa fatta questi due mesi passati. Il Signor Federico gode di ottima salute, spero il simile di Vostra Signoria Illustrissima e tutti di casa e per finire le faccio umilissima riverenza.
    Di Vostra Signoria Illustrissima umilissimo servitore.
    Malta il 4 marzo 1664.
    Suo umilissimo servitore
     
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  11. In this letter, probably written by the Jesuite Gio Batta Pescatore, the Count Giovanni de Lazara in Padova was kept informed about his son Federico in Malta.
     
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  12. Federico was sent to Malta by his father in 1662 to be admitted into the Order of the "Cavalieri di Malta"
     
  13. Federico was born in 1647 and died (cause of death unknown) in Padua in 1668, at the young age of 21 years.
     
    Hochstrasse likes this.
  14. Hochstrasse

    Hochstrasse Moderator Moderator

    Thank-you Alessandro for the transcript in as far as it was readable and the interesting history you were able to draw out of the letter.
     
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