Classical Stamps

Discussion in 'What's it Worth?' started by Werner Salentin, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Today I start hijacking another section.
    Classical stamps according to my own,of course
    non-binding definition (not even for me),are all
    stamps issued till 1875.Later issues are included,
    if they show the design of stamps issued before
    1875.
    Of course,due to the lack of funds,I have of no of
    the shown countries the "classical" stamps
    complete.But perhaps others can show more.
    My first country,is not a proper country at all:
    Bergedorf
    Bergedorf,today a suburb of Hamburg,was a
    condominium of Lübeck and Hamburg.No more
    than 3000 people lived there in 1861,when
    stamps were issued.Five stamps became valid
    on Nov.1st,1861.Of the 1/2 Schilling a reissue
    was put on sale in 1867,what differs in the tone
    of blue and a slightly smaller design.
    The stamps of Bergedorf were valid till Dec.31st,
    1868,when they were supersed by stamps of the
    Nordeutscher Postbezirk (North-German Conferderation).
    I can show three values:Mi.1a,3 and 4
    Bergedorf 1.jpg
    The central design shows half of each the coats of arms
    of Lübeck (to the left) and Hamurg (right).
    The stamps are mint quite affordable,especially if without
    gum.In used condition Bergedorf-stamps are quite
    expensive,on letters rarities.That is why stamps with
    faked cancellations are common.Expertizing is an
    absolute must !
    But also in mint many reprints and forgeries exist,
    but are not to difficult to detect.
     
  2. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member


    Hello Werner, Nice stamps. I believe your "country" is new to me, I do not think that I have seen it before. When I return to the UK next year I will look through my collection to verify my statement.

    Regards, James.
     
  3. DonSellos

    DonSellos Well-Known Member

    Werner:

    Bergedorf is new to me as well. With such a small population the number of stamps printed must have been small too. Your time frame for "classic" is not large. I am not sure I have any stamps, even U.S., between 1840 and 1875. I don't collect in that time frame due to high prices, but it will be interesting to see some stamps from that period.

    Don
     
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  4. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Don,probably bigger than you might think.
    1/2 S.prussian blue 160 000
    1/2 S. blue 40 000
    1 S. 90 000
    1 1/2 S. 100 000
    3 S. 80 000
    4 S. 80 000
    The 1/2 S.blue was issued in 1867 and could be
    used only till the end of 1867.
    However as with small modern states today,like
    Liechtenstein or Vatican,most stamps were
    bought by collectors and only few saw postal
    service.
     
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  5. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    A more familiar country:Ottoman Empire (Turkey)
    Türkei 1.jpg
    First issue,Jan.12th,1863
    20 Para left, 2 Piasters right.The red band at the
    bottom: postage stamp.
    Türkei 2.jpg
    Januar 1st,1863
    Postage Due 1 Piaster
    Blue band: postage due
     
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  6. DonSellos

    DonSellos Well-Known Member


    Werner:

    That is a large run for a small population.

    I should have known about these stamps. They are listed in Scott in the German States section. I have never seen any examples of these before. Something new learned with your Bergedorf posts.

    Don
     
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  7. Molokai

    Molokai Well-Known Member

    To some extent 'classic' is country specific I would think? U.S. material, all I am even moderately acquainted with, seems to divide where the U.S. Bureau of Engraving took over in 1894.

    The Bergedorf material is fascinating!
     
  8. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    I posted this set before in another thread.
    But as it is a true classic,here it is again:
    Ionian Islands,British Protectorate,issued
    June 15th,1859.Valid till 1864,when the
    Islands were united with Greece.
    Ion..jpg
     
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  9. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Today I want to start showing the stamps of
    a very special... It is difficult to describe,
    because it is no country: Thurn & Taxis.
    Thurn and Taxis is the name of a princely
    family,what organized the first Europe-wide
    mail service in 1490 by the order of the
    future Emperor Maximilian I (The Last Knight).
    They were subsequently appointed General
    Postmaster of the Holy Roman Empire of
    German Nations.
    In 1852,when Thurn & Taxis issued their first
    stamps series,they took care of the postal
    services of about twenty german states.
    For northern Germany stamps were valued
    in Silbergroschen (1 Thaler = 30 Silbergr.),
    for southern Germany in Kreuzer (1 Florin =
    60 Kreuzer).1 Sgr.was equivalent to 3 Kreuzer.
    Here the first series of 1852 (missing is the
    1/3 Sgr.):
    TT1.jpg TT2.jpg TT3.jpg
    TT4.jpg On the 9 Kr. you can see,what makes collecting
    Thurn & Taxis a challenge: stamps with margins
    all around are uncommon,because the distance
    between the stamps is very small.Full margin
    copies,like the 9 Kr. often show parts of the
    neighbouring stamps.In this case on three sides.
    Catalogue values are for stamps what are
    touched on at least one side.Stamps cut into
    are cheaper,full margin copies cost several times
    the cat.value,depending on the cut.

    In 1853 the 1 Sgr. and the 3 Kr. were reissued
    in slightly different colours:
    TT5.jpg
     
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  10. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Thurn & Taxis 2nd series 1859/61,single colour
    stamps:
    TT20.jpg TT21.jpg TT22.jpg TT23.jpg TT24.jpg
    There are no known forgeries of T.&T. The
    designs are too complicated.But cancellation-
    forgeries are plentiful of all stamps,what are
    cheap in mint condition.
    Here a larger scan of the 30 Kr.stamp,what show
    the details better:
    TT26.jpg
     
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  11. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Thurn & Taxis 3rd series 1862/63,new colours
    (missing are 6 and 9 Kr.)
    As series 4 and 5 are basically the same stamps,
    you will see the missing two stamps there.

    TT30.jpg TT31.jpg TT32.jpg
     
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  12. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Thurn & Taxis 4th series,1865 rouletted colourless
    TT40.jpg TT41.jpg TT43.jpg
    The following scan demonstrates how close
    the stamps are to each other:
    TT44.jpg
    So the same is true for this series as well as for
    the three proceeding ones:four margin well
    centered stamps are rare.
     
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  13. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello all, here are some "Winged Mercury" newspaper stamps from Austria 1908. I have a large number of the Cobolt Blue 2 Heller values, three different paper types, four perfs, and colour variations, one 6H used and one each 10 & 20 MH

    upload_2016-10-10_10-33-58.png

    upload_2016-10-10_11-7-58.png

    Regards, James
     
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  14. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello all, I have a fair number of the Thurn & Taxis stamps, they were posted on another forum some years ago, at present I cannot post here because I cannot find the original scan, it may be on my old desktop WD-HDD back in the UK. My brother may be able to connect it to the system so that I can get access from here. Possibly I will be able to post at a later date.

    Regards, James.
     
  15. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    An interesting issue.Three different papers,
    chalky paper 1908,dull/thin/translucent
    paper 1909 and thicker/smooth paper 1910.
    Exist perf.12,5 as presentation stamp.
    Privately rouletted or perforated stamps value
    about three times more,if on a wrapper.Loose
    ones value the same as normal stamps.
    Newspaper stamps were printed in very big
    quantities.The most common,the 2 Heller,
    will be nearer in the range of billions,than
    millions.But no official printing numbers
    exist.
    Validity till the end of 1916.
     
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  16. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Thurn & Taxis,5th series,1866,rouletted in
    coloured lines:
    TT50.jpg TT51.jpg TT52.jpg TT53.jpg
    For comparison the 3 Kreuzer values from
    series 3,4 and 5:
    TT60.jpg TT61.jpg TT62.jpg
     
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  17. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    What else to say about Thurn & Taxis ?
    T & T is a real classic.
    Of the 54 stamps issued 18 were sold as reminders
    when on June 30th,1867 T & T stamps became
    invalid.Prussia had bought the T & T postal
    services and prussian stamps were used from
    then on till the end of the year,when these were
    superseded by the stamps of the "Norddeutscher
    Postbezirk (North German Confederation).
    Those 18 reminders are very affordable in mint
    condition.Where else,worldwide,can you find
    stamps from the 1860´s costing less than € 5.-
    in mint,n.h. (!) condition ?
    As said before,there are no known forgeries
    of T & T stamps.However all remainders are
    quite expensive in used condition.So many
    cancel-forgeries are around.
    But there are other forgeries as well.But they
    so obvious,that only bloody beginners,like
    myself,can fall to them !
    TT70.jpg
    I bought this stamp on an auction,described as
    mint,ideally centered with even margins all
    around.An indeed it is.But it is not the 1/4 Sgr.
    of the 3rd (imperforated) series,but a trimmed
    one of the 5th.
    The 5th series rouletting was applied in one
    move with the printing.Because of that the
    printing pressure had to be higher and most
    stamps show a relief on the back.
    TT72.jpg
    But this relief can be ironed out.So my advice is:
    collect the 3rd series in stamps not so well
    centered,preferably with parts of a neighbouring
    stamp.You cannot go wrong then.

    To close,here some modern stamps from (West-)
    Germany,in connection with Thurn & Taxis:
    TTD1.jpg
    1952: 100 Anniv.of Thurn & Taxis stamps
    TT D2.jpg
    1965: 125th Anniv.of postage stamps (Penny Black)
    TT D3.jpg
    1967: 450th death-anniv. of Franz von Taxis,
    the founder of the first modern postal system.
     
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  18. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    Of a number of countries I have one or two
    stamps only.All stamps prove,that old stamps
    must not necessarily be expensive !
    Barbados.jpg
    1876 & 1875
    Costa Rica.jpg
    Costa Rica 1863
    Ecuador.jpg
    Ecuador 1865 and 1872
    N.Br..jpg
    New Brunswick 1860
    Nicaragua.jpg 1862 (?) more likely slightly altered (cheap)
    reprints of the 1869 issue.
     
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  19. James-2489

    James-2489 Well-Known Member

    Hello all, I have one New Brunswick stamp, I believe in xf condition except a slight mark in the gum and a very light penciled number 7 on the back.

    1860 Issue:
    upload_2016-10-24_16-46-34.png

    Regards, James.
     
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  20. Werner Salentin

    Werner Salentin Well-Known Member

    It is Scott no.7,S.G.no.10 or 11 or 12
    (depending on the colour),Michel no.5,
    issued in 1863
     
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